Hi, first time reader, from Israel (originally from the 5 Towns).
Could you please explain why you think the following:
"They also built a new world. A Jewish world without Torah observance. Two parallel worlds that seemingly can never meet aside from a few students of Rav Kook, who neither side takes seriously."
Why do you believe that Israel is a Jewish world without Torah observance?
Did you know that 90% of Israelis hold a Seder? 70% fast on Yom Kippur? I don't remember the exact number of those who have Friday night dinner with the family (and make Kiddush)?
Last year, there was a trend of fasting for Taanit Esther.
That song you sang, Rak Tov, it's sung by everyone , not by the religious. Our top hit refers to Hashem Yitbarach. That's a world without Torah?
Your teachers were more wrong than you realize.
And, why you think "a few students of Rav Kook" don't matter? The children you sang for, who do you think they are? The proportion of fallen soldiers was far higher from our community than our numbers (which is about 15% of the population, 40% of fighting soldiers and therefore casualties).
In Israel people are beginning to understand that we matter, but you don't?
What makes you think that we are lax in Halacha? Rav Yosef Tzvi Rimon has been answering shaylas like "when do I say Birkot Hashachar if I was out on patrol all night", kala kevachamura
What else were you taught that you maybe need to reexamine?
There is another aspect of living in the Sates versus Israel which seems unrelated to this discussion, but I would like to share it with you because I like your concerns and views. I would like you to be aware of this. —From a scientific study—
“An ancient slab of Earth’s crust buried deep beneath the Midwest is sucking huge swatches of present-day’s North American crust down into the mantle, researchers say.
The slab’s pull has created giant “drips” that hang from the underside of the continent down to about 400 miles (640 kilometers) deep inside the mantle, according to a new study. These drips are located beneath an area spanning from Michigan to Nebraska and Alabama, but their presence appears to be impacting the entire continent.
The dripping area looks like a large funnel, with rocks from across North America being pulled toward it horizontally before getting sucked down. As a result, large parts of North America are losing material from the underside of their crust, the researchers said.”
Is also Shabbat observance of the State of Israel —if not observance, then at least acknowledgment—a plus? In an accompanying comment, from The Shabbat Amidah in Shacharis, “…those who observe the Shabbat and call it a delight; the nation (only Israel) which hallows the Seventh Day——all shall be satiated and delighted with Your goodness.”
Here's an example of "a few students of Rav Kook, who neither side takes seriously" who are "lax in Halacha", from R' Rimon's whatsapp group earlier last year:
שלום הרב,
חייל שלובש ציצית באופן שישן איתה ואינו יכול להחליף לציצית אחרת בבוקר שאחרי, האם יכול לפשוט את הציצית כדי להסיח את הדעת? וכן האם יכול לצאת בטלית גדול של אחר?
Would you and your rebbe want to be measured next to him?
I appreciate your comment, but can you explain your outrage? The entire purpose of this piece is to elevate the perspective of religious Zionism above other perspectives. Perhaps you misunderstood my point?
I understand that you're trying to elevate our perspective, and it is good to consider other Torah perspectives.
I also understood your point.
But it's strange to me that while trying to point out that perhaps what you've been taught is insufficient, you continue to quote the misconceptions that might have been true once upon a time, but are no longer true now.
I'm sorry if it appears outraged, the ? were actual, not ?! - as in, I am actually asking you, why do you think that Israel is a world without Torah? An answer might be: "last time I went to visit, I saw signs for LGBT", or, "There's public transportation on Shabbat in Tel Aviv", or, "I don't know, this is what my teachers kept saying, it must be true".
The same thing about "lax observance" - is it, "ok, but all the Dati Leumi people I know go mixed swimming", or is it, "I didn't know about R' Yosef Tzvi Rimon and his Sefarim, or Rav Melamed and his Sefarim and all the people that are careful to observe every tiny ounce of Halacha."
I would appreciate an answer, because it hurts me to see the gap between us, it's not how I was raised
Every year YU sponsors a sefarim sale which has a huge selection of Sefarim and English Torah works at prices that are amazing especially for big sets of sefarim Many customers are there who are definitely not Talmidim in YU or RIETs Many who learn Daf Yomi learn vis the amazing All Daf site sponsored by the OU which also shares its scientific expertise and great Talmidei Chachamim in OU kashrus with American Yeshivish Chasidishe and MO communities
Wow, this is stunning writing that needs a larger audience. I already know you from your songs (and we share a mutual friend), but I did not know you were such a good writer. I will be crossposting this to my Substack.
Question: you write "let's start with the premise of the divinity of the Torah." I'm unsure if you personally subscribe to that belief, but if one doesn't, why would an American go fight in Israel for a falsely promised land? I don't see any fair claim to the land without some sort of God given promise.
Thank you for your kind words. There are plenty of reasons, including feeling unity with the only country in the world that guarantees safety to all Jews. I don't think faith is required here.
"And what is His will? Is it to take the opportunity that was historically denied to our ancestors and settle in our land?" No the Torah does not say that. That is the problem with you Zionists and your rabbis, you are all serial liars, false translators, and Torah law perverters and outright violators of Torah laws.
"And what is His will? Is it to take the opportunity that was historically denied to our ancestors and settle in our land?" No the Torah does not say that. That is the problem with you Zionists and your rabbis, you are all serial liars, false translators, and Torah law perverters and outright violators of Torah laws.
Hi, first time reader, from Israel (originally from the 5 Towns).
Could you please explain why you think the following:
"They also built a new world. A Jewish world without Torah observance. Two parallel worlds that seemingly can never meet aside from a few students of Rav Kook, who neither side takes seriously."
Why do you believe that Israel is a Jewish world without Torah observance?
Did you know that 90% of Israelis hold a Seder? 70% fast on Yom Kippur? I don't remember the exact number of those who have Friday night dinner with the family (and make Kiddush)?
Last year, there was a trend of fasting for Taanit Esther.
That song you sang, Rak Tov, it's sung by everyone , not by the religious. Our top hit refers to Hashem Yitbarach. That's a world without Torah?
Your teachers were more wrong than you realize.
And, why you think "a few students of Rav Kook" don't matter? The children you sang for, who do you think they are? The proportion of fallen soldiers was far higher from our community than our numbers (which is about 15% of the population, 40% of fighting soldiers and therefore casualties).
In Israel people are beginning to understand that we matter, but you don't?
What makes you think that we are lax in Halacha? Rav Yosef Tzvi Rimon has been answering shaylas like "when do I say Birkot Hashachar if I was out on patrol all night", kala kevachamura
What else were you taught that you maybe need to reexamine?
Kol tuv, Besorot tovot!
Thank you for these statistics.
There is another aspect of living in the Sates versus Israel which seems unrelated to this discussion, but I would like to share it with you because I like your concerns and views. I would like you to be aware of this. —From a scientific study—
“An ancient slab of Earth’s crust buried deep beneath the Midwest is sucking huge swatches of present-day’s North American crust down into the mantle, researchers say.
The slab’s pull has created giant “drips” that hang from the underside of the continent down to about 400 miles (640 kilometers) deep inside the mantle, according to a new study. These drips are located beneath an area spanning from Michigan to Nebraska and Alabama, but their presence appears to be impacting the entire continent.
The dripping area looks like a large funnel, with rocks from across North America being pulled toward it horizontally before getting sucked down. As a result, large parts of North America are losing material from the underside of their crust, the researchers said.”
Is also Shabbat observance of the State of Israel —if not observance, then at least acknowledgment—a plus? In an accompanying comment, from The Shabbat Amidah in Shacharis, “…those who observe the Shabbat and call it a delight; the nation (only Israel) which hallows the Seventh Day——all shall be satiated and delighted with Your goodness.”
Here's an example of "a few students of Rav Kook, who neither side takes seriously" who are "lax in Halacha", from R' Rimon's whatsapp group earlier last year:
שלום הרב,
חייל שלובש ציצית באופן שישן איתה ואינו יכול להחליף לציצית אחרת בבוקר שאחרי, האם יכול לפשוט את הציצית כדי להסיח את הדעת? וכן האם יכול לצאת בטלית גדול של אחר?
Would you and your rebbe want to be measured next to him?
I appreciate your comment, but can you explain your outrage? The entire purpose of this piece is to elevate the perspective of religious Zionism above other perspectives. Perhaps you misunderstood my point?
I understand that you're trying to elevate our perspective, and it is good to consider other Torah perspectives.
I also understood your point.
But it's strange to me that while trying to point out that perhaps what you've been taught is insufficient, you continue to quote the misconceptions that might have been true once upon a time, but are no longer true now.
I'm sorry if it appears outraged, the ? were actual, not ?! - as in, I am actually asking you, why do you think that Israel is a world without Torah? An answer might be: "last time I went to visit, I saw signs for LGBT", or, "There's public transportation on Shabbat in Tel Aviv", or, "I don't know, this is what my teachers kept saying, it must be true".
The same thing about "lax observance" - is it, "ok, but all the Dati Leumi people I know go mixed swimming", or is it, "I didn't know about R' Yosef Tzvi Rimon and his Sefarim, or Rav Melamed and his Sefarim and all the people that are careful to observe every tiny ounce of Halacha."
I would appreciate an answer, because it hurts me to see the gap between us, it's not how I was raised
I feel for you and I don't seek to endorse the gap, but perhaps you can explain your (or your communities) reaction to this https://www.shoresh.institute/publication.html?id=Pub034 Figure 15 pg. 14
https://chotam.org.il/media/37347/demography-of-religiosity.pdf especially in light of this https://www.academia.edu/12088627/David_Ben_Gurion_and_the_demographic_threat_His_Dualistic_Approach_to_Natalism_1936_1963
https://nonzionism.com/p/the-basic-problem-with-zionism
Every year YU sponsors a sefarim sale which has a huge selection of Sefarim and English Torah works at prices that are amazing especially for big sets of sefarim Many customers are there who are definitely not Talmidim in YU or RIETs Many who learn Daf Yomi learn vis the amazing All Daf site sponsored by the OU which also shares its scientific expertise and great Talmidei Chachamim in OU kashrus with American Yeshivish Chasidishe and MO communities
Wow, this is stunning writing that needs a larger audience. I already know you from your songs (and we share a mutual friend), but I did not know you were such a good writer. I will be crossposting this to my Substack.
Question: you write "let's start with the premise of the divinity of the Torah." I'm unsure if you personally subscribe to that belief, but if one doesn't, why would an American go fight in Israel for a falsely promised land? I don't see any fair claim to the land without some sort of God given promise.
Thank you for your kind words. There are plenty of reasons, including feeling unity with the only country in the world that guarantees safety to all Jews. I don't think faith is required here.
Are you serious??? You can't think of any secular arguments for the right of the jewish people to their homeland?
I can think of many. I'm curious what Ben has to say.
"And what is His will? Is it to take the opportunity that was historically denied to our ancestors and settle in our land?" No the Torah does not say that. That is the problem with you Zionists and your rabbis, you are all serial liars, false translators, and Torah law perverters and outright violators of Torah laws.
"And what is His will? Is it to take the opportunity that was historically denied to our ancestors and settle in our land?" No the Torah does not say that. That is the problem with you Zionists and your rabbis, you are all serial liars, false translators, and Torah law perverters and outright violators of Torah laws.
"min" ?
How apropos.
And they wonder why we give up and eat cheeseburgers.